Doing Some Minivan Homework

"Jason Spears" (shadestalker) 02/24/2020 at 16:44 • Filed to: Minivan

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Honda Odyssey for your time.

My wife recently used the word “minivan” in conversation and it was not preceded by “I don’t want to drive a, ” so we are going to be shopping soon.

All I know for starters is that the usual suspects for top marks are the Odyssey and Sienna, with some fans of the more recent Pacifica. Each make seems to have some kind of seat trick to differentiate it , but apart from that things look very close on paper. I would estimate we’re going to be looking at around 2010 - 2016 models. What are things to avoid or seek out ?

CB > Jason Spears 02/24/2020 at 17:01

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Have you considered a Kia Sedona?

(Me knowing nothing of the market other than the fact that they still sell the same Caravan from twelve years ago)

Textured Soy Protein > Jason Spears 02/24/2020 at 17:03

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There’s also the Kia Sedona and, shocker, the Nissan Quest still exists but it’s weird, mannn.

The 3rd row in the Sedona folds flat into the floor but the 2nd row flips forward and not completely out of the way. 

Long_Voyager94 > Jason Spears 02/24/2020 at 17:09

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Our experience differs from most people, but it’s something to consider.

My family as a whole maintains everything we own meticulously, but we also drive “harder” than the average person.

We’ve had a handful of Honda/Toyota vans in the family, all were bought new (2012+), dealer maintained, and not a single one was able to make over 50k miles without major engine or transmission failure (both in a couple cases).

Every one of those vans were traded on Grand Caravans or Town and Countrys (all 2014+), all of which made well over 200k miles without an issue, one still in service at 387k miles.

The key on the Mopar vans is to throw the factory maintenance schedule out the window. Oil change every 4k miles using full synthetic, trans fluid/filter every 30-50k miles depending on how you drive, coolant change every 60k with a new thermostat.

Honestly a Grand Caravan or Town and Country will be the best bang for your buck, just make sure it has all it’s service records.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > Jason Spears 02/24/2020 at 17:12

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Aren’t more recent Odysseys known for some sort of issues or something I seem to remember reading somewhere?

Mr. FiSTer of Team FiST Fetish > Jason Spears 02/24/2020 at 17:13

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I rented a newer Pacifica for a day and I liked it. I think if you’re looking for something that hauls a lot of shit you’re much better off with a van than an SUV.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Jason Spears 02/24/2020 at 17:22

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The Pacifica actually has a great interior and Stow N Go. Not much experience with vans except being a passenger. They recently made a cheap decontented version called the Voyager, which it should have been called all along, to compete with the old Grand Caravan.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Jason Spears 02/24/2020 at 17:28

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Have you considered a 2005 Chevy Venture?

Cash Rewards > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 02/24/2020 at 18:03

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What about a Pontiac Montana?

Manny05x > Jason Spears 02/24/2020 at 18:14

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I like the sienna Xle has more of an aggressive look to me.  

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > Cash Rewards 02/24/2020 at 18:19

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Too flashy. 

Jesus Arias > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 02/24/2020 at 18:40

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not flashy enough

Ssfancyfresh > Jason Spears 02/24/2020 at 18:50

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We are on vacation and driving a loaded Pacifica. I love it. I’m going to find out what it takes to get one when we get home 

ttyymmnn > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 02/24/2020 at 19:05

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My parents have a van with stow and go seats, and I found them to be horribly uncomfortable. Kids might be more forgiving. 

dtg11 - is probably on an adventure with Clifford > Jason Spears 02/24/2020 at 19:37

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Go with the Sienna or Sedona . Odyssey has lots of minor issues, transmissions and electronics. They can get expensive fast. Pacifica is decent, but still FCA

ttyymmnn > Jason Spears 02/24/2020 at 20:18

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We have a 2003 Odyssey that I can’t bear to get rid of. So much so that we are on our second (used) engine and second transmission. It’s got 220k miles on it. I just can’t find anything that I like as much. The Odysseys have kind of gone downhill. The newer ones are all about looks and features and nothing about drivability and comfort. Hell, the base model doesn’t even come with armrests in the cabin seats. I think I’m just going to keep driving ours until our kids are out of college, which will be 9 more years. Although I doubt we’ll make it that far. But, you never know.

If you do look at Hondas, and Toyotas too, I imagine, make sure they’ve had all the recalls on the claymore airbag inflators. 

HoustonRunner > Long_Voyager94 02/24/2020 at 20:22

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Came here for this reply...

Jason Spears > ttyymmnn 02/24/2020 at 20:27

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Respect.

HoustonRunner > HoustonRunner 02/24/2020 at 20:28

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As a minor counterpoint, I daily drove our Honda and our T&C is primarily driven by our afternoon nanny (college student who shuttles our kids around to after school activities). I’m not sure I’d be happy DD the T&C, the Honda was more refined in terms of NVH. But this is our third one due to the sheer value.

Also, good reminder I need to do a transmission fluid and filter change.

My X-type is too a real Jaguar > Jason Spears 02/24/2020 at 20:29

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The Chrysler has the best towing capacity but only by 100 pounds over the Toyota and Kia. I’ve had good experiences with the Chrysler vans for the most part. Their transmissions have gotten better in the last 15 years. 

koawaft1 > Jason Spears 02/24/2020 at 21:14

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We still have our 2008 Si enna. New engine but only needed because father in law drove it for a few hours after a water pump went out. Took over a year to notice something was not right. The power side doors like to go out on the side Sienna but after 12 hard years (I have taken off the rear bumper on a few off roading\camping trips) and 150k miles. I would buy another.

Ryan > Long_Voyager94 02/24/2020 at 21:19

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50k miles is nothing for Hondas and Toyota and it is surprising for me to hear what happened to you.

QCGoose > ttyymmnn 02/24/2020 at 21:35

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Can comfirm. Having ridden in the 2nd-row Sto-N -Go as an adult numerous times (very unfortunately) , they are the worst, most uncomfortable excuses for seats I’ve ever encountered in my life. Kids won’t know any better, but good God, for adults, they are  utterly atrocious.

QCGoose > dtg11 - is probably on an adventure with Clifford 02/24/2020 at 21:50

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Exactly why we went with a new ‘18 Sienna.

We liked the looks of the Sedona the best, but its interior volume was the smallest of the vans and its fuel economy wasn’t great, though that wasn’t really a deal breaker.

The Pacifica was a non-starter because Chrysler, and I’ll be damned if I waste our money on their junk. The Quest, same, although it ranks even lower than the Pacifica.

So it was between the Sienna and Odyssey. We were leaning towards the then all-new Odyssey, but I’d read more than enough reviews where they were having problems with transmissions (moreso the 9-speed than the 10-speed) and other electrical issues like faults w ith the power-sliding doors.

So though it was an older platform by 2018 , the Sienna got a new 3.5 engine and 8-speed transmission for ‘17 which have proven reliable and a facelift for ‘18 (though I’m still not crazy about it). It was the safest bet for the long run, and has proven to our family to be flawless. It’s quick when it needs to be (8-speed + 296 hp), efficient when it needs to be (we’ve had countless trips averaging over 30 mpg, the highest at 34.6), and is supremely comfortable for all of us. The ride is soft, supple, and soaks up the bumps; in a family hauler like a van, that’s exactly what it should do .

ttyymmnn > QCGoose 02/24/2020 at 22:21

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We have taken many 3,500-mile road trips in our Odyssey. The seats are excellent, though I rarely, if ever, sit anywhere other than the driver’s seat. We’ve done 16-hour days with little compliant from the main cabin. The seats in the new Oddy feel thin and cheap compared to ours, but still nowhere near as bad as the Sto-n-go. Those things were probably designed by somebody from the Spanish Inquisition. 

Don > dtg11 - is probably on an adventure with Clifford 02/24/2020 at 22:35

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Replaced my 2008 T&C  with 475,000 miles with new Pacifica.  Never an engine issue or electric issue. Did replace trans at 250k.  New Pacifica has  75,000 miles,  nothing but oil changes every  10,000 miles. Zero problems.   Only reason I traded was to get 8 passenger seats. 

Compasteedee > Jason Spears 02/24/2020 at 23:43

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It depends on your needs. I’m no FCA fan, but Stow ‘n’ Go seats are a game changer. If it’s just for around town stuff, a Sienna is probably the right are call. Odyssey’s are too pricey for a comparably optioned van. However, most of their issues were addressed by MY 2013, so it’s still a solid van (my personal second choice). But if you have a biggish family (4+) and use it for, say, camping, vacations, or out of town travel , you’ll love the extra space and versatility that the Pacifica/Grand Caravan provide. FCA definitely has more issues, but they are also cheaper to fix than any of the Japanese alternatives. The 3.6 P entastar is also a solid engine in terms of reliability/durability. I’ve also heard good things about the Kia Sedona as being an under-appreciated, minivan gem, but have no personal experience with them.

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > Jason Spears 02/25/2020 at 01:25

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How big a van do you need? How much fun do you want to have? 8 years on and I’m still in love with my little Mazda5 6MT. I know that I don’t fit the stereotype of the typical minivan driver so my needs and desires may not match those of most buyers in this category .

Long_Voyager94 > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 02/25/2020 at 06:43

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The Voyager should be based off the Grand Caravan. A cheap Pacifica should never have gotten the Voyager name.

Long_Voyager94 > ttyymmnn 02/25/2020 at 06:45

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Exactly why we bought a Grand Caravan with the 2nd row bench.

The SNG in the 2nd row is terrible. I wouldn’t even put my kids through that, who wants to deal with uncomfortable kids on a trip?

Long_Voyager94 > My X-type is too a real Jaguar 02/25/2020 at 06:46

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Their transmissions have always been fine. It’s the thought that you can make 100k miles on 5.5 qts of fluid that’s been their issue. That and shops/dealers using the wrong fluid.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Long_Voyager94 02/25/2020 at 07:00

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I have to disagree there. The Pacifica is a really good van, and the new stripped out model comes within a negligible distance of the old Dodge Caravan. The Dodge simply does not compare to its spiritual successor in refinement ; it exists because fleets keep buying them and the tooling is paid off. That said, the Caravan served its purpose admir ably, but it is time to move on. 

Long_Voyager94 > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 02/25/2020 at 07:31

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I found the Pacifica to feel terrible. Inside is cheap, seats are terrible, ride is nice at the expense of handling, transmission is horrid, and frankly the styling looks like an Odyssey rear-ended a 200 ( not attractive ).

Regardless, the Voyager/Grand Voyager was always based off the Caravan/Grand Caravan. It’s a bastardization of the name to slap it on a cheapo Pacifica.

FCA will be soon to find they lose a lot of business by axing their best selling minivan.

Long_Voyager94 > QCGoose 02/25/2020 at 07:33

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I look at it this way, if I’m not comfortable in the seats my kids won’t be either.

Who wants to deal with uncomfortable kids on the road?

Maybe people not caring about their kids’ comfort is why so many people hate going on family trips......

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Long_Voyager94 02/25/2020 at 07:35

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Maybe you have a point. I would have to have more experience with them to tell though.

Long_Voyager94 > HoustonRunner 02/25/2020 at 07:36

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I’ll agree the Odyssey is slightly quieter inside, but I’ve always found the Hondas feel cheap inside.

How noisy new/newer vehicles inside was something that blew our minds when we bought our van, I’m not sure how people live with that much road noise in their cars.

Long_Voyager94 > RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars 02/25/2020 at 07:38

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Electrical issues galore, plus they never fully sorted their trans issues, and some have oil consumption issues as well.

Chris L > Jason Spears 02/25/2020 at 09:02

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We have a ‘10 Sienna XLE Limited. I bought it used in November. Paid less than $10k, had 89k miles, it has everything on it except AWD. It is my fifth Sienna. I had (in the past) a 2004 CE, 2012 Base, 2015 SE, and 2017 XLE. Yes, the Sienna is long in the tooth but with recent Honda recalls and Chrysler “quality” I’m sticking with Toyota.

Thisismydisplayname > Jason Spears 02/25/2020 at 11:08

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We have a 2017 Pacifica and my MIL just bought an ‘18. We like the pacificas a lot. Test drove the last gen odyssey but found to lack any soul, so had to pass. Grabbed our Pacifica brand new, probably the last ever new new vehicle I’ll ever buy. Would have rather grabbed a used one, but they were just hitting the lots when we were buying, so not an option.

If you’re going used, the Pacifica and the grand caravans are great values. The second row seats fold up without pulling off the child seats, or the child for that matter. We’ve constantly had 8 passengers in ours. 4 kids seats as well. Works very well for hauling kids and their stuff. I don’t miss AWD at all, so no need to look at the sienna for us.

Used Odyssey’s hold their value too well to make them a real bargain.

The only concern I have for the Pacifica is the 9 speed ZF trans. The grand caravans don’t use the 9 speed and should be a bit safer choice, but it’s a different van.

Happy hunting.  

Thisismydisplayname > CB 02/25/2020 at 11:10

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The Sedona is decent, but not as nice as the caravans, pacificas or odyssey’s.  Definitely work, but feel cheap.  

Thisismydisplayname > Long_Voyager94 02/25/2020 at 11:14

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The grand caravans are a very good value.  About 5k cheaper than a comparable Pacifica, which is also a good value compared to the odyssey.  But I know you’re affinity towards the GRand caravans vs the Pacifica’s.  I just wish FCA would have ditched the 9 speed.  It’s pointless to have that many gears and just another long term issue to deal with.  

Long_Voyager94 > Ryan 02/25/2020 at 11:59

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You couldn’t pay me to drive a Toyota/Honda van after the experiences my family have had with them.

Scott > Jason Spears 02/25/2020 at 12:49

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As an owner of both a 16 Sedona and 19 Pacifica, I would say get the Sedona. The Pacifica was brand new in 16 and had issues that have since been resolved, but you may inherit some that haven't been fixed. My Sedona has been trouble free. The second row folding forward against the front seatback is nice but having to haul it out and store it somewhere. 

Jason Spears > Chris L 02/25/2020 at 14:06

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Why five though? Just m oving up through the trim levels?